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We can also learn about nations the same way. Finland is widely regarded as having the best school system in the world with few, if any, "failing schools." They also invest a huge percentage of their GDP in education. They have cradle to grave health care and absolutely seamless social services. Everyone would like to have Finland's test scores just skip all the pesky socialism.

What's the lesson there?

"Those "nations" (The US-or CA- for example with so many "failing" schools and struggling communities) teach lessons about indifference, fecklessness and bull-headed resistance to change. It's best to wipe the slate very, very clean.
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I like the Finnish idea of nixing preschool and starting formal education at age 7, but comparing Finland to the US is hardly an apples-to-apples sort of thing. When 10 million illegal Mexicans swarm into Finland and demand free education and healthcare, and Finland is able to deliver all this AND police the entire world and hand out billions of bucks to other nations, that would be a more realistic comparison.

Have you seen the John Stossel education documentary where he blasts US public education? He features Finnish kids who kick American butt on some sort of international test in the video calling Americans "stupid" and other pejoratives.

On another note, test scores are NOT the sole determiner of which schools close. NOBODY with a brain in his head would move into the Kansas City Public School District area without a good idea of homeschooling or some extra money to enroll his kid in a private school. Consequently, public schools are closing.

It's been a long time coming.

Gary--Finland is certainly a different case from ours, and the comparisons with teh U.S. can become tiresome given the different environments we face. You're right--we love everything abuot high-performing nations except their socialism. That said, Finland can teach us some important lessons about how to address the needs of struggling students--something they do very well.

Mrs. C--We live in a country that is more than happy to reap the economic benefits of illegal immigration in good times and then decry its effects in lean times. But great teachers and their colleagues in schools will cherish every child, see every child's potential, regardless of where that child comes from or what their perspectives on immigration policy might be. That's a credit to great schools.

As for Stossel, I saw his piece, which was far off the mark. Even strong supporters of free school choice couldn't come to its defense. CBS shouldn't have run it as if it were some kind of informative piece, because it was a broad-brush advocacy piece riddled with errors of logic and fact.

Finally, it's not just schools that are driving populations out of some urban centers. It's lack of opportunity, crime and a whole host of social issues that affect children, families and schools. Public schools can help anchor communities, but there's a whole lot more to neighborhood development than that.

Hi Claus -

Thanks for the link! I'd just like to point out that, as I mentioned in my post, the attrition numbers for the four KIPP schools in 2008-2009 look artificially high because of the way the statistics are gathered. Stability looks at the number of students currently enrolled in the highest grade in the school who were also enrolled in the school last year. Because the 4 KIPP schools were trying to transition from 8th grade to 9th grade, their attrition was high due to the fact that many of their students may have applied, and been accepted to, more well-known high schools in NYC. In fact, every single charter school for whom the 8th/9th grade years were studied had higher attrition due to this fact. If you look at KIPP's number in 2007-2008 (data that is available in my spreadsheet) you'll see that their attrition numbers were far lower. Just thought I'd point that out - apologies if I wasn't clear about that in my post. Thanks again for your insight!
All best,
Kim

Claus, we DO have drug gangs coming in from Mexico, and we DO have a system that is overwhelmed by massive immigration from that area. Finland is hardly dealing with all that on the same scale, was my material point. I have a feeling that the "benefits" of illegal immigration are felt more by some people than others and CERTAINLY are not felt by the people in the inner cities educators claim to champion but... we can chat about that in another post. :)

One other example worth noting - an EdSector report out earlier this spring compared two Florida high schools. One of them had an A on the state report card and placed in the Newsweek top 100, the other had a D on the state report card. However, the graduates of the "D" school were outperforming graduates of the "A" school in college (w/ higher grades and greater chance of continuing beyond 1 year). Which school is better? It's kind of silly to try to answer that question. Maybe if we asked, "Better at what?"